Be Careful what you wish for
August 26th 2008 22:00
In response to this blog posting, regarding this article, I posted the comments below. I felt it was important to repost it here. Asking the government to take away or keep away somebody's freedom to exercise their own conscience is a dangerous thing to wish for:
This isn't just about whether the pharmacy in a one stoplight town should have to sell contraceptives. This is about whether us as individuals and business owners, PRIVATE CITIZENS, should have the government telling us what we can and cannot sell at our business.
Be very, very careful what you wish for, it may work against your own self interests some day.
Let's put it in liberals terms. What if a future president felt it was wrong for a biodiesel reseller to not also offer gasoline? What if that was the only place that sold fuel and the government came in and said, "You, private individual who has a philosophical opposition to gasoline, you must sell it!"
What if they required any store that sold anything edible to sell meat. It's a food some people choose to eat so why should vegan stores stop them from buying it?
What if they told a homeopathic doctor they had to prescribe all medicines by the AMA guidelines?
It's OK to dodge a draft on as a conscientious objector but not refuse to sell contraceptives? Do you have brothers, nephews, etc that might be called up if we need a draft again? If you do and you push against private doctors and pharmacists being able to use their conscience, you open the door to not being able to avoid the draft.
Or say they told your poetry shop they had to put Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh books in there too, in order to be "fair."
If the government can force privately owned businesses to sell certain items, they could force all outdoor stores to sell guns. They could ban book stores from selling porn, or force them to sell it.
This is called authoritarian rule and you should be careful what you wish for. If you insist that every PRIVATELY owned business submit their sales list to the government, it can move on to digging in your garbage can to make sure you are recycling (as they already do in Seattle and propose to do in San Francisco). Then if they find things that lead them to get a warrant on your house, now you're invaded. It can lead them to require you own at least one hybrid or electric car, with garage inspections.
Understand, pharmacies are not all government agencies. They are not public institutions. Many are mom and pop shops, and it's a basic principle of a free society that they can sell what they want and not sell what they don't want to. Telling people what part of their conscience or faith they are allowed to follow and which ones they can't is VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
This whole thing is not about stopping women from getting contraceptives, it's about our privacy. While it would seem to swing in your favor now to force them to offer these drugs, a future administration or congress might use that same gained power to ban such drugs from pharmacies nationwide.
You will find that the VAST majority of conservatives are not only fine with contraceptives, but use them, including me. Roman Catholicism is the only major religion in the U.S. that has a doctrinal opposition to them. Therefore, the percentage is very small. And, if they are forced to sell things they don't believe in, they could do something even worse: close shop and now offer NO medicines or anything to that rural community. Nothing bans them from that and nothing should.
While the pendulum in the U.S. may be swinging more liberal right now, no matter how your conscience works or what your morals are, you should be very hesitant to impose them on anybody through the government. If you want your home and business privacy protected, don't threaten others just because you disagree with them.
This isn't just about whether the pharmacy in a one stoplight town should have to sell contraceptives. This is about whether us as individuals and business owners, PRIVATE CITIZENS, should have the government telling us what we can and cannot sell at our business.
Be very, very careful what you wish for, it may work against your own self interests some day.
Let's put it in liberals terms. What if a future president felt it was wrong for a biodiesel reseller to not also offer gasoline? What if that was the only place that sold fuel and the government came in and said, "You, private individual who has a philosophical opposition to gasoline, you must sell it!"
What if they required any store that sold anything edible to sell meat. It's a food some people choose to eat so why should vegan stores stop them from buying it?
What if they told a homeopathic doctor they had to prescribe all medicines by the AMA guidelines?
It's OK to dodge a draft on as a conscientious objector but not refuse to sell contraceptives? Do you have brothers, nephews, etc that might be called up if we need a draft again? If you do and you push against private doctors and pharmacists being able to use their conscience, you open the door to not being able to avoid the draft.
Or say they told your poetry shop they had to put Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh books in there too, in order to be "fair."
If the government can force privately owned businesses to sell certain items, they could force all outdoor stores to sell guns. They could ban book stores from selling porn, or force them to sell it.
This is called authoritarian rule and you should be careful what you wish for. If you insist that every PRIVATELY owned business submit their sales list to the government, it can move on to digging in your garbage can to make sure you are recycling (as they already do in Seattle and propose to do in San Francisco). Then if they find things that lead them to get a warrant on your house, now you're invaded. It can lead them to require you own at least one hybrid or electric car, with garage inspections.
Understand, pharmacies are not all government agencies. They are not public institutions. Many are mom and pop shops, and it's a basic principle of a free society that they can sell what they want and not sell what they don't want to. Telling people what part of their conscience or faith they are allowed to follow and which ones they can't is VERY VERY DANGEROUS.
This whole thing is not about stopping women from getting contraceptives, it's about our privacy. While it would seem to swing in your favor now to force them to offer these drugs, a future administration or congress might use that same gained power to ban such drugs from pharmacies nationwide.
You will find that the VAST majority of conservatives are not only fine with contraceptives, but use them, including me. Roman Catholicism is the only major religion in the U.S. that has a doctrinal opposition to them. Therefore, the percentage is very small. And, if they are forced to sell things they don't believe in, they could do something even worse: close shop and now offer NO medicines or anything to that rural community. Nothing bans them from that and nothing should.
While the pendulum in the U.S. may be swinging more liberal right now, no matter how your conscience works or what your morals are, you should be very hesitant to impose them on anybody through the government. If you want your home and business privacy protected, don't threaten others just because you disagree with them.
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Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
My church reaches out to women who have had abortions and helps them heal if they need it. We give them love and support in dealing with what is for many women a lifelong source of guilt and depression.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Of these pharmacists that do not wish to sell the pill, are they also against stocking products containing Pseudoephedrine, or perhaps even sleeping pills or antidepressant drugs? It would be interesting to see just where their morals lie...
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
It's called freedom and private enterprize, alt-ed. How would you like to be forced to sell Bibles and Rosaries? In your porn shop.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
S.L. the issue with Pharmacists is that they have been trained to provide a specific medical service... Perhaps, if they don't wish to provide an unbiased service they should moved into a new profession- Politics anyone?
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Like, I'd love to have played football but have no desire to be tackled or roughed up on the field... Should I change the rules? Or just not participate in a game that I will not be able to participate in fully?
This debate can obviously be argued for and against until the cows come home... But rationally, one must accept that medical professionals are required to behave in a manner fitting their profession not the religion, or any other views...
I don't expect all doctors to agree with my gay lifestyle, and that is fine, however I do expect to receive the same level of care and treatment!
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
It is the same with abortion! I think that a woman deserves the right to chose (within certain guidelines of course).
I think your 8month termination example is a little far-fetched S.L., but lets say for example, that I had paid a woman to father my child, and she had an induced abortion 8months into the pregnancy, I would first yes try and discuss the matter with her, failing that i would probably take her to court for violation of our contract!
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
I'm surprised to hear that being gay is your choice, not to change the subject. These days we hear so much about how it is a matter decided by genetics of something equally unchangeable. Like the color of your eyes. They say that people are "born gay" and have no choice. It's odd that you chose your "gayness." Of all the gays I know (and there are several) most of them say it was their choice and they're happy with it. Only on TV do we hear that its inborn.
Just curious, how does your family feel about your lifestyle? Some people would abort a gay child, or a retarded one, or a girl (if they wanted a boy and vise versa). Would you consider that a valid reason to support an abortion?
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
As for my choice being gay, well S.L. it is genetics- But i choose to live an OPENLY gay lifestyle. There are many gay/bi/lesbian people, who feel pressured to confirm, and thus do not openly act upon any other desires.
S.L. I know you're probably trying to be smug, but i come from a pretty close nit family unit; my parents and siblings also adore my partner... S.L. my parents treat myself, and siblings the same- they wish nothing more for us to be happy, content INDIVIDUALS. My sexuality is not the issue, the issue that they concern themselves with is whether or not my partner treats me with dignity and respect, and ultimately makes me happy.
I'd be careful with your insinuations S.L. one day I fear a stone just might shatter that glass house of yours
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
As it happens, I do know several gays (as I said before) I also know a liberal family who would abort their child in a heartbeat (not the baby's heartbeat, obviously) if they discovered that their child was going to be gay. It's nice that your parents weren't like that.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
You know, it could be argued that a woman of say 58, needn't worry about abortion either as the likelihood of her getting pregnant without medical assistance would be about as slim as me falling pregnant... Wouldn't you say?
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
They CHOOSE (see, there's that word liberals only conveniently support) to open a business to provide medicine to their community and they can choose what to sell.
AGAIN THOUGH, maybe you missed the point. If we start with this, which you may consider to be in your self interest, what's next? Do you think if by some horrible mistake this country's government gets even more liberal that on the swing back the other direction they won't do something to affect your rights?
Give the government the power to tell people what they can and cannot sell in their privately owned business, and gay bars may be required to make the environment comfortable for heterosexuals too. Or with that control a future ultra-conservative (and not one I agree with either) may tell ALL pharmacies they CAN'T sell condoms, KY or Vaseline because it enables your lifestyle.
Again, just because it swings your way now, doesn't mean you want the precedent it sets.
Comment by alt_ed
Alted Opinion
ArtCombat
The Inner Saintdom
Um the sale of the pill really doesn't swing in my favour now does it???
Jonathan, Im not sure exactly what indirect contact you may have had with gay people, but perhaps if you were to attend a gay bar you would realise that they already cater for heterosexual people as the promote a SAFE and INCLUSIVE atmosphere!
On another note Jonathan, I don't really care which way your government swings-- im aussie! all we can wish for though, is that it swings far enough to bump the evangelist's of their inept pedestals !