Why Socialism is Bad
December 8th 2008 04:25
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I've heard people calling in to conservative talk shows, like Hannity and Rush, asking what's so bad about socialism. Usually it's one of the few liberals that listen to these shows.
Let me frame this a little from my point of view. I believe Christ was an advocate of socialism - but only within the church. He knew that it only worked in a voluntary, Holy Spirit led environment, where it wasn't a question of punishing somebody for working harder, it was allowing the Holy Spirit to work through them and lead them to give what they have to another less fortunate. The Biblical system of socialism required honesty and openness and did not give power to a small group of humans to decide. Between First and Second Corinthians, some Corinthians had stopped working and treatedthis church socialism system as welfare – don’t work, get paid anyways. Paul spends a portion of Second Corinthians instructing them that ALL should work and do their best to contribute to the system as a whole, and that if you don't work, you don't eat.
So, why am I so opposed to it at a governmental level? Because in Biblical socialism everybody is encouraged to work hard, the sharing is voluntary and led by the Holy Spirit, and achievement is still rewarded and celebrated. In a governmental socialist system, and there are varying levels of it, a relatively small group of people get wealthy off the system and incentive to work is destroyed. Only people with too much pride to leech off the taxes of others work hard, but their reward for that work is watching 50% of more of their hard earned money go the government and get passed out to people who won’t make the same effort they do.
The most ironic thing about this for me is that Barack Obama is the perfect example of the greatness of a non-socialist system. He came from very little, worked hard in college and law school, honed his speaking skills and in fourteen years went from corporate lawyer to president of the United States. His wife had a similar rise to her high powered job in Chicago. Both of them came from backgrounds where the value of hard work and not relying on the government were taught.
Now, on to why socialism is bad.
The more socialist a country is, the more godless it becomes. It’s not the government’s responsibility to take care of the poor. It’s the church’s duty. One of the principal points of Marxist teaching is that God has to be taken out of it. Welfare removes the perception of responsibility of the church in caring for those less fortunate.
In 2007 Americans gave 380,390,000,000 to charity, more than any other country by GDP or by capita. This wasn’t because the government told them too, though I’m sure some did it for the tax deduction. This is because the Christian values in this country still linger enough for people to value charity.
Doubt this premise? Then how come the new Capitol Visitors Center (which was budgeted to cost $79 Million but our wonderful Democratic Congress let balloon to $621 Million) has all reference to God removed? Not one reference remains. The Ten Commandments are inscribed all over the Supreme Court and other Capitol buildings, but God is removed from a new center. Harry Reid said the new center would be great because he wouldn’t have to smell us any more. (Look it up, I’ve heard the audio on Hannity AND Rush).
There are two things Christianity and even Islam and Judaism teach that are contrary to socialism: charity is only worthwhile if voluntary and hard work is rewarded and encouraged for those who need charity. The Bible teaches hard work, it’s not called the Protestant Work Ethic for nothing.
Even today when church’s help people with their rent or electricity or medical bills, most require something in return, either work or attendance and participation in the church. Socialist governments need to destroy religion so that the dependent have to turn to them, thus consolidating their power. Dependent people keep socialist governments in power. If people are relying on the church on the corner to help them get back on their feet, in a temporary, help you get back to work way, then government isn’t needed for that.
Which brings me to my next point.
Government based socialism concentrates power in a few. There are those that hold to socialism out of a genuine belief that people need to be cared for, and don’t want the church doing it, or don’t think the church does a good enough job. However, for the most part, socialism is a matter of increasing the power base for a few at the top. Those who push socialism at the political level do so to increase their constituency and make their power solid and permanent.
I saw it with my own eyes in the Soviet Union back in the late 80s when I was there. Everybody lived in poverty, with lines for every basic necessity, except those in the government or KGB. We brought our own toilet paper because you had to stand in long lines for it and then maybe not even have it when you got to the front. Even in the tourist city of Yalta, when we went to public bathroom they handed you Pravda, the national newspaper, to wipe with.
In a socialist system the only people in control of their own wages are the government officials that set the wages for themselves. There’s no incentive to do better. If the government wants to create a new agency, they raise taxes to do it and nobody can change that. In a non-democratic system all this takes is the military strength. In a democracy all it takes is a large enough dependent population that votes.
What the left wing of the Democratic party has been doing over the last 30 years is working hard to increase that voting, dependent population. It is the reason for their policies on immigration, as that increase the number of poor people dramatically. It is the reason for fighting welfare reform, vetoing it three times before passing it on the fourth. It is why they want to increase welfare and the minimum wage. These things aren’t good for our economy. These things hurt wages and jobs. But it does increase the number of people who feel beholden to the party. Up until this election, most of these people don’t vote. They lack the initiative to lift themselves up, why have the initiative to go to the polls.
Socialism robs people of their ability to achieve. France is a great example of a socialist democracy. Taxes are near 75%. In 1999 their suicide rate among males was 26.1 per 100,000 people, and among females 9.4 per 100,000. In the United States for that same year, it was 17.6 per 100,000 for males and 4.1 for females. Which culture and system creates happier people? Among males their suicide rate was more than 50% higher than the US and more than double that for women. In the Russian Federation the rate for men is 70.6 per 100,000, four times higher than the US.
Why is that? People often achieve and find worth through adversity. A drive to achieve often comes from the need to get yourself out of a tough situation. How many people put themselves on a budget when their bank account is always full? Ross Perot found success in the failure of three businesses before the one he became a billionaire off of.
In a capitalist system, there is both incentive and reason to work hard. The incentive is that someday you too can be rich, with hard work and luck. The reason to work hard is that you have to in order to survive. The point of charity in that system is people are led to voluntarily, with conditions, help people get to the point of being able to help themselves again. Yes, there needs to be care for the disabled and others that are dependent, that is the duty of the church and charity, as well. However, for the most part, no other system has allowed, and encouraged, people to find what they are good at and work hard at it to success.
When the government provides everything for you and your neighbor, there’s no reason to do more than you have to. Extra hard work does nothing for you.
You can see it in a microcosm if you work in almost any government, union run agency. I have worked in government for a total of three years now, though not currently. It was soul-sucking. No matter how hard you work, how much better you are at your job than the guy next to you, you will get the same 3% raise he does. And you can prove yourself better than any other employee, but surf the net at your 3pm lunch hour because you were making a tech support call FOR your neighbor because he was too lazy or rude to do it, and get let go before your probation runs out for violating surfing rules.
Man, being let go from there was a good thing for me. Why? Even with the fully paid healthcare for my family and the guaranteed 3% cost of living and 5% step annual increases, it was not fulfilling work. Now I am in a position where the harder I work, the more I make. If I work harder than the others in my field, I will be rewarded. I can build a business, hire people to work for me and have the satisfaction of helping others.
So many of my co-workers at my government jobs had no drive or ambition left in them. They are just doing their eight hours of work, going with the flow, getting their check. Many of them work hard to do their best, almost all of them Christians following Biblical principles. Many more of the people you will find in government jobs do their forty hours with the least amount of effort possible so as to not be given even more work. These are the people you will see on a nice day standing outside from 10 to 10:15 and again at 3 to 3:15 and walking to lunch or their car at noon or 5pm on the button.
Now imagine if every job was a government job, guaranteed with no reward or punishment for accomplishment or the lack thereof. In a fully socialist system that is the case, and people have to find their joy and reason for living in other pursuits, like legal prostitution and marijuana in Denmark. If Obama does everything he promises the top tax rate for those making $250,000 or more a year will go from 36.5% (which is a lot) of income tax and 6.5% on their first $100,000 in FICA up to 39.5% income tax, 6.5% on ALL of their income in FICA, plus higher taxes on their capital gains, death tax , etc.
How many of you have ever been employed by a poor person? You have two choices, work for a rich person or work for the government. The more the government taxes the rich to give to the poor just for being poor, the less rich there will be, so the more taxes on them will have to go up, so less rich, until the government owns all the means of production because there are no more ambitious people to start them.
Population moves from socialist societies to capitalist systems. Vermont is one of the most socialist states in the union. Property tax rates aren’t by county or city, they are by neighborhood. If a neighborhood is more expensive houses, the property tax rates are higher there.
One of Vermont’s top exports: employers and jobs. People are leaving fast too. You can find it over and over again that the population in this country flows from high tax states to low tax states. Part of this is that employers move by the same pattern.
People come here for medical care from Britain, France and Canada because their government run health care systems are nothing compared to our capitalist driven one, where innovation and research can make you rich. Lawsuits and government interference in health care have driven our costs up, but so have regulations like individuals not being allowed to shop for health care across states lines and only being able to buy insurance in state that is expensive because state mandates require it to include acupuncture and psychiatric care, whether you need it or not. However, even with all of these burdens, we still have the best health care in the world. Not the cheapest, but the best.
Understand that the world has become a place where people with money can choose to live and set up shop almost anywhere they want. The quality of our health care system, and the rewards possible in our relatively capitalist system, have made the USA the first choice of many. However, today’s industry, unless it depends on something only available in the US, can work from anywhere with the internet and UPS.
If the government succeeds through the Dems and libs in taking over health care and turning this country into a less desirable place to live, there are plenty of countries with low taxes and high opportunity waiting to take them in.
If my taxes at $240,000 a year are 30% total but if I make $250,000 taxable income it goes to 50%, I lose money by making more unless I make a great big leap. What incentive do I have? Why work harder, hire more people, open a new branch?
So, less and less people let their income go above that line or they pass that extra expense on by hiring less people or raising their prices and the government has to lower the line or increase the taxes on more people to pay for their programs.
Name me one thing the government does better than the private sector. The mail? Nope, UPS, FedEx, all those companies do it better, so much so there was a law passed that said unless you could prove need, you had to use the mail for first class level mail.
The only thing the government should do is justice and military. Period. Social Security is going bankrupt, Medicaid has 31% fraud, the level of waste in all agencies is staggering. Government officials and politicians can get away with mismanagement and waste that would get a private sector employee fired.
Do you know where Ford and GM are making a profit? In South America where there is less government regulation. Both companies are succeeding building and selling cars the people want where the government is out of their way.
That’s why socialism is bad and needs to be fought. Get Biblical values back into our schools, at all levels, not preaching salvation, but teaching ethics and hard work. Get the government back to oversight, not regulation, that we’re being treated justly. Reduced taxes, fight waste, turn agencies over to private, competing enterprises and get out of our way.
Instead, by this time next year, I predict our big three automakers will be one new government run industry and this country will be in either depression, a march to true socialism, or even civil war.
One prediction I hope is wrong.
I've heard people calling in to conservative talk shows, like Hannity and Rush, asking what's so bad about socialism. Usually it's one of the few liberals that listen to these shows.
Let me frame this a little from my point of view. I believe Christ was an advocate of socialism - but only within the church. He knew that it only worked in a voluntary, Holy Spirit led environment, where it wasn't a question of punishing somebody for working harder, it was allowing the Holy Spirit to work through them and lead them to give what they have to another less fortunate. The Biblical system of socialism required honesty and openness and did not give power to a small group of humans to decide. Between First and Second Corinthians, some Corinthians had stopped working and treatedthis church socialism system as welfare – don’t work, get paid anyways. Paul spends a portion of Second Corinthians instructing them that ALL should work and do their best to contribute to the system as a whole, and that if you don't work, you don't eat.
So, why am I so opposed to it at a governmental level? Because in Biblical socialism everybody is encouraged to work hard, the sharing is voluntary and led by the Holy Spirit, and achievement is still rewarded and celebrated. In a governmental socialist system, and there are varying levels of it, a relatively small group of people get wealthy off the system and incentive to work is destroyed. Only people with too much pride to leech off the taxes of others work hard, but their reward for that work is watching 50% of more of their hard earned money go the government and get passed out to people who won’t make the same effort they do.
The most ironic thing about this for me is that Barack Obama is the perfect example of the greatness of a non-socialist system. He came from very little, worked hard in college and law school, honed his speaking skills and in fourteen years went from corporate lawyer to president of the United States. His wife had a similar rise to her high powered job in Chicago. Both of them came from backgrounds where the value of hard work and not relying on the government were taught.
Now, on to why socialism is bad.
The more socialist a country is, the more godless it becomes. It’s not the government’s responsibility to take care of the poor. It’s the church’s duty. One of the principal points of Marxist teaching is that God has to be taken out of it. Welfare removes the perception of responsibility of the church in caring for those less fortunate.
In 2007 Americans gave 380,390,000,000 to charity, more than any other country by GDP or by capita. This wasn’t because the government told them too, though I’m sure some did it for the tax deduction. This is because the Christian values in this country still linger enough for people to value charity.
Doubt this premise? Then how come the new Capitol Visitors Center (which was budgeted to cost $79 Million but our wonderful Democratic Congress let balloon to $621 Million) has all reference to God removed? Not one reference remains. The Ten Commandments are inscribed all over the Supreme Court and other Capitol buildings, but God is removed from a new center. Harry Reid said the new center would be great because he wouldn’t have to smell us any more. (Look it up, I’ve heard the audio on Hannity AND Rush).
There are two things Christianity and even Islam and Judaism teach that are contrary to socialism: charity is only worthwhile if voluntary and hard work is rewarded and encouraged for those who need charity. The Bible teaches hard work, it’s not called the Protestant Work Ethic for nothing.
Even today when church’s help people with their rent or electricity or medical bills, most require something in return, either work or attendance and participation in the church. Socialist governments need to destroy religion so that the dependent have to turn to them, thus consolidating their power. Dependent people keep socialist governments in power. If people are relying on the church on the corner to help them get back on their feet, in a temporary, help you get back to work way, then government isn’t needed for that.
Which brings me to my next point.
Government based socialism concentrates power in a few. There are those that hold to socialism out of a genuine belief that people need to be cared for, and don’t want the church doing it, or don’t think the church does a good enough job. However, for the most part, socialism is a matter of increasing the power base for a few at the top. Those who push socialism at the political level do so to increase their constituency and make their power solid and permanent.
I saw it with my own eyes in the Soviet Union back in the late 80s when I was there. Everybody lived in poverty, with lines for every basic necessity, except those in the government or KGB. We brought our own toilet paper because you had to stand in long lines for it and then maybe not even have it when you got to the front. Even in the tourist city of Yalta, when we went to public bathroom they handed you Pravda, the national newspaper, to wipe with.
In a socialist system the only people in control of their own wages are the government officials that set the wages for themselves. There’s no incentive to do better. If the government wants to create a new agency, they raise taxes to do it and nobody can change that. In a non-democratic system all this takes is the military strength. In a democracy all it takes is a large enough dependent population that votes.
What the left wing of the Democratic party has been doing over the last 30 years is working hard to increase that voting, dependent population. It is the reason for their policies on immigration, as that increase the number of poor people dramatically. It is the reason for fighting welfare reform, vetoing it three times before passing it on the fourth. It is why they want to increase welfare and the minimum wage. These things aren’t good for our economy. These things hurt wages and jobs. But it does increase the number of people who feel beholden to the party. Up until this election, most of these people don’t vote. They lack the initiative to lift themselves up, why have the initiative to go to the polls.
Socialism robs people of their ability to achieve. France is a great example of a socialist democracy. Taxes are near 75%. In 1999 their suicide rate among males was 26.1 per 100,000 people, and among females 9.4 per 100,000. In the United States for that same year, it was 17.6 per 100,000 for males and 4.1 for females. Which culture and system creates happier people? Among males their suicide rate was more than 50% higher than the US and more than double that for women. In the Russian Federation the rate for men is 70.6 per 100,000, four times higher than the US.
Why is that? People often achieve and find worth through adversity. A drive to achieve often comes from the need to get yourself out of a tough situation. How many people put themselves on a budget when their bank account is always full? Ross Perot found success in the failure of three businesses before the one he became a billionaire off of.
In a capitalist system, there is both incentive and reason to work hard. The incentive is that someday you too can be rich, with hard work and luck. The reason to work hard is that you have to in order to survive. The point of charity in that system is people are led to voluntarily, with conditions, help people get to the point of being able to help themselves again. Yes, there needs to be care for the disabled and others that are dependent, that is the duty of the church and charity, as well. However, for the most part, no other system has allowed, and encouraged, people to find what they are good at and work hard at it to success.
When the government provides everything for you and your neighbor, there’s no reason to do more than you have to. Extra hard work does nothing for you.
You can see it in a microcosm if you work in almost any government, union run agency. I have worked in government for a total of three years now, though not currently. It was soul-sucking. No matter how hard you work, how much better you are at your job than the guy next to you, you will get the same 3% raise he does. And you can prove yourself better than any other employee, but surf the net at your 3pm lunch hour because you were making a tech support call FOR your neighbor because he was too lazy or rude to do it, and get let go before your probation runs out for violating surfing rules.
Man, being let go from there was a good thing for me. Why? Even with the fully paid healthcare for my family and the guaranteed 3% cost of living and 5% step annual increases, it was not fulfilling work. Now I am in a position where the harder I work, the more I make. If I work harder than the others in my field, I will be rewarded. I can build a business, hire people to work for me and have the satisfaction of helping others.
So many of my co-workers at my government jobs had no drive or ambition left in them. They are just doing their eight hours of work, going with the flow, getting their check. Many of them work hard to do their best, almost all of them Christians following Biblical principles. Many more of the people you will find in government jobs do their forty hours with the least amount of effort possible so as to not be given even more work. These are the people you will see on a nice day standing outside from 10 to 10:15 and again at 3 to 3:15 and walking to lunch or their car at noon or 5pm on the button.
Now imagine if every job was a government job, guaranteed with no reward or punishment for accomplishment or the lack thereof. In a fully socialist system that is the case, and people have to find their joy and reason for living in other pursuits, like legal prostitution and marijuana in Denmark. If Obama does everything he promises the top tax rate for those making $250,000 or more a year will go from 36.5% (which is a lot) of income tax and 6.5% on their first $100,000 in FICA up to 39.5% income tax, 6.5% on ALL of their income in FICA, plus higher taxes on their capital gains, death tax , etc.
How many of you have ever been employed by a poor person? You have two choices, work for a rich person or work for the government. The more the government taxes the rich to give to the poor just for being poor, the less rich there will be, so the more taxes on them will have to go up, so less rich, until the government owns all the means of production because there are no more ambitious people to start them.
Population moves from socialist societies to capitalist systems. Vermont is one of the most socialist states in the union. Property tax rates aren’t by county or city, they are by neighborhood. If a neighborhood is more expensive houses, the property tax rates are higher there.
One of Vermont’s top exports: employers and jobs. People are leaving fast too. You can find it over and over again that the population in this country flows from high tax states to low tax states. Part of this is that employers move by the same pattern.
People come here for medical care from Britain, France and Canada because their government run health care systems are nothing compared to our capitalist driven one, where innovation and research can make you rich. Lawsuits and government interference in health care have driven our costs up, but so have regulations like individuals not being allowed to shop for health care across states lines and only being able to buy insurance in state that is expensive because state mandates require it to include acupuncture and psychiatric care, whether you need it or not. However, even with all of these burdens, we still have the best health care in the world. Not the cheapest, but the best.
Understand that the world has become a place where people with money can choose to live and set up shop almost anywhere they want. The quality of our health care system, and the rewards possible in our relatively capitalist system, have made the USA the first choice of many. However, today’s industry, unless it depends on something only available in the US, can work from anywhere with the internet and UPS.
If the government succeeds through the Dems and libs in taking over health care and turning this country into a less desirable place to live, there are plenty of countries with low taxes and high opportunity waiting to take them in.
If my taxes at $240,000 a year are 30% total but if I make $250,000 taxable income it goes to 50%, I lose money by making more unless I make a great big leap. What incentive do I have? Why work harder, hire more people, open a new branch?
So, less and less people let their income go above that line or they pass that extra expense on by hiring less people or raising their prices and the government has to lower the line or increase the taxes on more people to pay for their programs.
Name me one thing the government does better than the private sector. The mail? Nope, UPS, FedEx, all those companies do it better, so much so there was a law passed that said unless you could prove need, you had to use the mail for first class level mail.
The only thing the government should do is justice and military. Period. Social Security is going bankrupt, Medicaid has 31% fraud, the level of waste in all agencies is staggering. Government officials and politicians can get away with mismanagement and waste that would get a private sector employee fired.
Do you know where Ford and GM are making a profit? In South America where there is less government regulation. Both companies are succeeding building and selling cars the people want where the government is out of their way.
That’s why socialism is bad and needs to be fought. Get Biblical values back into our schools, at all levels, not preaching salvation, but teaching ethics and hard work. Get the government back to oversight, not regulation, that we’re being treated justly. Reduced taxes, fight waste, turn agencies over to private, competing enterprises and get out of our way.
Instead, by this time next year, I predict our big three automakers will be one new government run industry and this country will be in either depression, a march to true socialism, or even civil war.
One prediction I hope is wrong.
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
So, tell me more about your book?
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Great! What's the bad news?
Comment by Chris Champion
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Chris Champion
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
You don't have to like what I'm saying, Chris. But I am speaking the truth. Documented fact. All you can speak from is the starry eyed fantasy world of liberalism that believes in a dream that isn't real. And just FYI, the majority of Americans claim to be Christian. Even B.O. does, although he has yet to do anything that would be mistaken for Christianity.
Comment by Chris Champion
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This post is not about communism. It is about America. It is about linking socialist theory with Barack Obama and the Democratic Party. It is dishonest scare-mongering. It is a narrow, minority view.
We all live to some extent in ivory towers. At least the view from mine is not completely intolerant of anybody who disagrees with my political opinions or who doesn't believe in my minority god.
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
You happy about twice as many unemployed living off of the taxes of those that can find work?
And for your information Ruby and Chris, every society that has depended on only man's standards for morals and ethics has slaughtered millions of people. No society has survived with out at least a standard of Kharma.
From the Khmer Rouge to Mao to Stalin, every society that cuts religion out altogether and starts deciding moral lines by human standards becomes genocidal, diseased and impoverished.
They lock people up for political opinions and speech. Their families are destroyed by sexual perversions.
Very out there estimates give the death toll as a result of the inquisition at no higher than 18,000. Deaths at the hands of godless societies number in the hundreds of millions.
You may not like what God says to you about abortion, sex without marriage, etc, but they are the glue that holds society together.
Here's a great book to read for more truth on this
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
Did you miss Barack's plan this weekend? $1 Trillion dollar in "public works projects", "education spending (with no accountability changes)", "health care system linkage" (yeah, because my medical information will be so safe on that network), etc.
$1 Trillion in new spending that from studies on the works programs of the GD show a net job loss for the economy, and already over tax revenue by over a trillion dollars a year now for this year. Where's that coming from? A turnip?
Taxes will have to go through the roof to pay for it, further destroying any chance at economic recovery but also generating the fear and pain the Democrats need to propose and push through even more government take over.
The big three auto makers will be government owned by 2010. Just watch.
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
- He's not even president and he's interfering in the death of that company in Chicago. He and the governor want a bank to lend to a company that is going under and is guaranteed to not be able to pay so that workers can get severance.
- Democrats will push through nationalized health care, another social program.
- Raising taxes on the rich to give tax rebates to people who pay no taxes is redistribution of wealth. You can call it repayment of their FICA contributions, but that FICA they pay in they GET BACK WHEN THEY RETIRE, so it is still effectively taking from others to give it to them.
- Massive new government "employment" in public works and other projects. Our government already employs more people than the 50 largest employers in the US combined.
- Even in the current $750 Billion bailout and the conditions on the loans to the big three wage controls for executives are going in, capping salaries for people who were paid what their companies felt they were worth. The big three are failing because of excessive regulation and union greed, but we're going to blame executives? The Community Reinvestment Act and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac/Democrats caused the housing bubble, but now executives of the banks that did what Fannie/Freddie ordered are to be punished? Classic class warfare, a socialist tactic.
- Harry Reid prevented over a dozen federal bench appointments from being voted on, 15 times what any Republican Senate has EVER done to a Democratic lame duck. Once Obama gets those filled with judges who want "to use the Constitution to promote economic justice" (read reparations), he can start his march.
Believe me, I hope I'm wrong. But he keeps talking like a socialist and proposing socialist programs. It quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.
Comment by Chris Champion
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No sidetracking. No sensationalism. Not one mention of socialism.
Comment by Chris Champion
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Comment by Lilla
From The Home Front
Enviro Warrior
Dream Herald
Esoteric Bookshop
I am not American, but I do understand many of its democratic workings *lol* but not all... I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading this piece and how well written I thought it was. Clear concise, informative and poignant in its message.
.
It would help if the governemnts could get out of debt themselves, would it not?
Lilla ...
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Well that's not true. Australia's Indigenous population managed to survive some 65,0000 years without God AND without slaughtering each other en masse. Do they count as people?
From the Khmer Rouge to Mao to Stalin, every society that cuts religion out altogether and starts deciding moral lines by human standards becomes genocidal, diseased and impoverished.
Circumstantial evidence. What do your three examples have in common? They all adhered to a skewed interpretation of Marxism whereby the State owned the means of production and was controlled by a dictator. Given this fact, I would say that it was not so much the absence of God but the presence of an equally repressive ideology that was the problem.
They lock people up for political opinions and speech.
Oh you mean like in Guantanamo? Or in a theocracy such as Iran or Afghanistan under the Taliban?
Are you sure you want to follow this line of argument? How many evangelical preachers have been rocked by sex scandals? And as for families destroyed by sexual perversions, you really need to look no further than the Bible. Wasn't Lot drugged and raped by his own daughters? Is this the kind of morality and ethics we have been by God?
Comment by Damo
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
We can also point to Nazi Germany. A form of socialism there as well, but it was the rejection of creation and the belief they could speed along evolution to create a master race that led to their eugenics. You should watch Ben Stein's "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed."
Greek society, that we owe so much of our democratic and governmental principles to, in the absence of Judeo-Christian ethics practiced sacrifice, had legal prostitution, and valued people according to their wealth.
I could go on, but we'd end up arguing over whether the behavior of non Judeo-Christian people's was appropriate or not.
A Christian that claims to be perfect has committed a sin right there. Christians failing to live up to Christian principles does not make Christian principles wrong. That would be like me trying to convince you abortion is wrong based on one case of the woman dying during the procedure.
Does somebody murdering somebody make the laws against murder wrong? Lot being raped does not make that a value of God, it shows why we need him.
The fact that those things are considered wrong in God's eyes is what makes them wrong. There have been many cultures that rejected God that considered those examples to be OK. Do you want people to shrug their shoulders at family shattering adultery and blow it off? Do you want people to be OK with daughters raping their father?
Those aren't God's ethics or morals. There are many stories in the Bible that are to illustrate people are fallible and there are penalties. David suffered great lost for sleeping with Bathsheba and having her husband killed. Lot's family suffered greatly. Cain was banished. Solomon saw Israel split for following false gods.
Much of the purpose of the Old Testament is to show that we were incapable of following God's laws, so a messiah was needed to cover our sins. It is the DESIRE to avoid breaking God's laws that HELPS a society function well, knowing full well that no human is capable of following perfectly at all times.
I'm sure you've had bad food before. Do you stop eating? So you see some bad followers of God, or people who CLAIM to follow Him, and stop following God? How are God or his principles to blame for the actions of imperfect humans any more than all food could be blamed for spoiled food?
If I killed people in the name of Ruby, should you be blamed? So why blame Christianity or God for the things people claim to do in their name? If you do, you are grasping at wind to avoid your real reasons for not wanting to listen to his knock at your heart and I'll pray for you, Ruby.
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
Those theocracies are human distortions of their religions, or do you believe all Islam is evil? Again, don't confuse humans calling themselves something with what they are claiming to be.
I'm white, so claiming to be black doesn't make it so. Claiming to be a Christian or a Muslim doesn't make you or your behavior Christian or Muslim.
Comment by Anna Kovacevic
So who are you anyway?
Our health care system, similar to the one in France means we are ranked far above the United States by the World Health Organisation.
The tightly controlled, anti-capitalist regulation of our banks means our four major banks are amongst the top twelve in the world.
With our mininum wages of $14.31 per hour and welfare system we are sitting at a, gosh, absolutely whopping 4.5% unemployment rate whilst the unemployment rate of America's is currently 5.6%.
Oh yes.
Socialism is very bad indeed.
Comment by Janet Collins
Acceptable Etiquette
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
If you think socialism still really exists in Australia then you must have a salaried job. It went all by the wayside in the Keating era when he presided over the accord and relinquished many people in menial jobs to casual employment.
The Howard era went further. Unemployment fiigures are a farce. You only have to have one shift a week - and that is four hours - to be classified as employed. If you look into it, Australia has the second largest casual workforce in the western world. Spain is first.
Our system originally was based on a semi-socialist system that guaranteed a decent living for the most basic wage earner. Now that has all gone.
That is why we have so many homeless people. And don't get me started on those suffering mental health probllems, many of whom are also homeless.
That is what our sophisticated Austalian society has delivered us.
Comment by Anna Kovacevic
So who are you anyway?
I do know that our real unemployment rate is much higher but then, so is the real unemploment rate of America's. Ours will go up but theirs will balloon very soon.
Talk to any conservative in America and they will tell you that there should be no safety nets in terms of minimum wages or health care, this is all anti-capitalism.
There is no doubt that the problem of homeless people here in Australia is shocking, I agree but we are miles ahead of the United States in terms of affordable health care, the minimum wage and the state of the economy.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Honestly, Anna, socialism works great for a little while, but it never lasts because some people have to pay for the many and the state eventually takes over, eliminating both competition and individual rights. Russia, North Korea, China and Cuba all started with the socialist idea and it doesn't work, ultimately. If it did work, there wouldn't be millions of people every year trying to get to America.
Comment by Janet Collins
Acceptable Etiquette
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
Australiia set iitself up on this premise. Was that wrong? No.
I heard an academic saying a few years back that we were "the Sweden". We had got the balance right between socialism and capitalism. But then it all went belly up and we became lthe nation that didn't care for those philosophies anymore. What a shame!
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
I tried to move to Australia about 15 years ago. They wouldn't let me in without at least $150,000 US or a job already set.
Every time you increase the minimum wage, jobs are lost. It's that simple.
Last time Nancy Pelosi pushed through a minimum wage increase she got an exemption for American Samoa. Why? The major tuna companies are based in her district and they all have canneries in American Samoa. These are the people we want spreading Socialism, when they already help their own first?
No everything in every socialist system breaks. But it works better in free markets. Our health care costs are through the roof because of lawyers and immigrants. My premiums help pay the increased cost of hospital stays for insured AND uninsured people. Does Australia's health care system require care for non-citizens?
Comment by Damo
Medicare is paid for by a medicare levy from my wage and is not socialist in origin.
Social security is not socialist in origin.
The minimum wage is set by a tribunal that takes into account the cost of living and is not socialist in origin.
Socialism is the nationalization of property ownership not the embodiment of compassion as some socialists try to claim.
Comment by Janet Collins
Acceptable Etiquette
The Social Critic
Janet Collins Blog
Australia USED to be a kind of combiation of socialism and capitalism. The system was called the Australian System. It ensured a minimum wage which now only really exists for those who are on salaries.
In the Hawke-Keating era things began to change and a new concept, neo-liberalism was introduced. The weaker unions such as those representing the retail sector, the service sector such as waiters, cleaners, etc all caved in. It was called "The Accord".
The levy for Medicare was introduced by John Howard.
I heard an academic speak of The Australian System a few years ago. His thoughts were that we used to be "the Sweden". In other words, very progressive.
Jonathan - I was a little confused about your comment. Are you saying Australia shouldn't have let you in because you took away jobs.
One point - most of the service sector is now handled by agencies. Instead of the worker getting the decent wage the agencies are skmming the money. Just have a look at how that sector has grown and you will see why.
If those at the top weren't so so greedy, everyone would be much better off. The CEO's wages is a cost for the product too, but some people don't seem to think about that.
Comment by Anna Kovacevic
So who are you anyway?
Does that make our country socialist?
I don't think our healthcare system, setting of minimum wages and welfare payments to the cost of living are socialist either but Jonathon and SL may disagree with you.
Comment by Damo
I do not know your friends but I do know Australian history.
We are not a socialist country nor have we ever be so in the past.
Communism is just one version of Socialism. Nazism is another. Neither could be more different.
Comment by RubySoho
Music Zone
Thought Zone
Comment by Anna Kovacevic
So who are you anyway?
Comment by Damo
Ignore. You are too ignorant to converse with.
Anna
By all means you can use those arguments.
I have never claimed to be a conservative nor do I care to defend conservatives.
Just because I do not like socialism it does not automatically mean that embrace the opposite view.
This accusations of socialism seems to be over the top Spin Doctoring. There is a lot more between the extremes that is worthy of consideration.
Comment by Dane
-Dr Adrian Rogers
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
USSR STARTED out as Socialism under Karl Marx but him and his Bullshavik homies turned it into Communism when they took the Social aspect out and centralized the power and authority into a small group. (kinda like capitalism)
"of the people, by the people, for the people..." <---sounds a little like socialism if you ask me. (Thomas jefferson, Ben Franklin, FDR, and Teddy R all were very socialist dems and reps.)
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
" Socialism is the idea that the working class, the class that produces the profits, the wealth, the cars, houses, planes, steel, should take over and run things collectively, democratically, for the benefit of the majority (who also "just happen" to be workers too).
Communism is the idea that society should not have classes - exploiters and exploited, oppressors and oppressed, and so on. " <--it sounds nice in theory but is actually pretty nasty.
hope that helps, See, I kno my history too and not just "running my face" whatever that means. (real history, not just the one-sided stories we are told)
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
People can call themselves whatever they want, it doesn't mean it's what they really are. Wake up man. Brittney spears calls herself a musician, but she can't play and instrument or sing without the studio musicians and EQ adjustments.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
You can say whatever you want to this cause I am DONE here. I really hope you will keep an open mind and look at things from all angles. Get the facts (hard to do with the effed up media today) and make a decision for yourself.
p.s. Global Warming has been proven by EVERY ecologist, biologist, and other scientist since the 70's. It's real. I can't eat the fish in half the lakes in my state because of pollution, how you gonna argue that.
God Bless America - It needs the help!!!
pps. Christian Mythology makes about as much sense as greek mythology - your god is dead
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
and who the hell Andrew? LOL again.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
And my God is alive, well and watching you.
Comment by Anonymous
you are totally right about one thing. I did say I was done and here I am typing again-when I should be working
Comment by anonymous
I don't usually have much to do with PBS, although I have been interviewed by them.
When I went to school, we got to learn history before it was rewritten with the liberal slant. Freedom isn't a liberal idea, Andrew. It comes from God and that's distinctly against the liberal philosophy. I'm not the one who needs to do the research, I was there for a lot of the history that you think you know about.
S.L. Bradish (I'm having a log in problem)
Comment by Anonymous
you don't like PBS? why? because no one is paying them to say what you wanna hear.
I hope you wake up some day. Thing of things from both sides. BTW I think Barack Obama leans to far to the RIGHT!!!
OK for real tho, I'm actually done this time, Later player,
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Jonathan Biviano
Politics Realm
Marriage Bits
Or that arctic ice is just doing what it is supposed to.
Or this article
What cracks me up is people who think the people who wrote the Bible were writing a fairy tale, yet people like Al Gore, who has a majority share in and RUNS a carbon credit trading corporation and stands to make BILLIONS through cap and trade can be trusted.
You don't trust the writers of the Bible, yet you believe the scientists who claim humans are causing climate change. Seems your skepticism only extends to those things that don't agree with your ideology.
I believe we have climate change, I just haven't found convincing evidence, since carbon emissions have been rising yet temperatures a falling again and we've been in a 30 year temperature cycle for as long as weather has been tracked, that humans don't significantly affect it.
Since sunspots and our position relative to the more active side of the sun have a correlation to the 30 year cycle should we hamper our economy with a $3800 per household annual tax to cripple the energy and manufacturing industries of the US?
Yes, if you're a socialist! With that kind of pain the socialist can turn to the people and offer to help! They can even blame the evil energy and manufacturing companies for raising prices so they could keep making a profit, when it was their policies that forced it so that the companies, which provide employment, could stay open!
One of two things ALWAYS happens to a country that heads down the road to pure socialism:
1) They collapse along the way.
2) They take more and more authoritarian control, become communists, then collapse.
The pain on both paths to the same conclusion is immense for all but the "proletariat."
Scientists said the world was flat.
Scientists said the sun revolved around the earth.
Scientists threw Louis Pasteur out on his rear for suggesting pasteurization.
Scientists laughed at the person who claimed women were dying from childbirth because the delivering doctor came straight from an autopsy carrying "germs."
Highly respected scientists of their time claimed to have proven that "colored" people were genetically dumber and less capable, and people bought it.
The scientific community thought Ben Franklin to be a crackpot regarding electricity, until his key and the kite.
So now we're supposed to trust a bunch of scientists with a goal of bringing the world economy to its knees so that socialism can "take advantage of a crisis" and rise again?
Don't think so.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Comment by Anonymous
For one thing, Even if you don't believe global warming you can't deny pollution it's affects on the water and food Supply.
Scientist, Like Ben Franklin and Louis Pasteur used SCIENCE, not religion, to prove their inventions and such. It is SCIENCE, not dogma, that proved the Earth was round. Ben Franklin was himself a very left leaning socialist, in fact, he was labeled as a terrorist!
In addition, some regulation on big biz and would create jobs. We Need economic democracy if we want a place to eat and breath on. Taking care of people and the planet is the best thing we can do for the world economy. When the same companies that caused the collapse are bailed out with our taxpayer money, at the same time the cost of living goes up, wages go down, how can you not want some say and regulation.
Comment by Anonymous
"The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it." [Genesis 2:15]
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
And thanks for the Bible quote. Liberals never quote the Bible, unless it's for the purposes of ridicule.
Comment by Anonymous
There are numerous Christian groups fighting lobbiest and special interest groups demanding and end to War, pollution, and representation ie transparencey in the gov't. They ask, "Who would jesus bomb? where would jesus dump toxic waste? " and other such questions.
The crown considered our founding fathers terrorist because they fought oppression from an elite group of the wealthy and wanted to bring about liberty, of and by the people. Sounds like a bunch of "bleeding heart liberal super socialist" if ya ask me
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
Freedom is the gift of God and we should all appreciate it. Having a government remove our freedom is not something we should ever be happy about. We are losing freedom, jobs and our future with every stroke of B.O. (B.S.)'s pen. If you want to live under socialism, maybe you should relocate to Cuba, Venezuela or North Korea.
Just in case you didn't know, Jesus is spelled with a capital J.
Comment by Anonymous
You claim to be a man of the bible but you are so far from the teaching of Jesus, it's absurd! The bearded, Jewish, Arabic man would be very disappointed.
What would JESUS buy? who would JESUS bomb? where would JESUS toss toxic waste? Jesus was a "Liberal"
Do some research and look into the facts, I'm sure, when see the truth for yourself, we can start working together to make the government work for the people again, and not for corporate greed.
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
I don't think for a second that Jesus was a liberal. I can't recall a single time that he stole from one group to support another. I don't remember him ever saying that gay marriage was wonderful or that abortion was a right. He made wine out of water, He fed thousands with loaves and fishes. But He didn't force anyone else to pay for it. It was a miracle that He gave out of love.
As for "corporate greed", you should give some thought to what that means. Yes, some of the fat-cat executives make more than they're worth. However, society grows from the top down, not from the bottom up (financially at least.) Otherwise, when looking for a job, you would look for a homeless person to hire you, not a business owner. If big business is forced into failure by a crooked government, the jobs evaporate. Look around you! Everyone being poor and miserable isn't the answer. Punishing success isn't the answer. Giving people free rein to expand and prosper and grow financially benefits everyone. Keeping us all poor and scratching benefits no one... except the politicians.
Comment by Anonymous
http://www.storyofstuff.com/
Really Long Link
http://socialistparty-usa.org/
Really Long Link
Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief
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The Political Brief
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Comment by S.L.
The Political Brief